Compas set for Wauseon

Everything is a go for the big meet! Got the truck greased and full of oil. The governor has signed my release papers from the states employ. Going to bring a few things for the club and going to take back parts, pitchures and great memories. I called the Arrowhead and added another day to my room and hope to get intouch with the ghost of Bob Carson my hero! I hope to help out some too, as long as I don't half to shave my legs or man the kissing booth. I have two pages of car questions for the experts so be warned. I was going to bring an object I found inside the Iowa Crosley and get it identified. Turns out it was a tool used by a Vet for horses(don't ask). Please let me know if you need somethin from the hills.

I'm getting ready to roll to. Got the FOR cleaned up, changed the oil and topped off the radiator. Loaded it on my new trailer and will do a test run around the block tomorrow to see how the balance is.Should sort out a few parts for the trading post but probably will not get around to it. A day behind because the dealer installed E-Track didn't pass my anal ways. He had installed it with sheet metal screws into the fame cross members and dry wall screws into the plywood floor. I replaces sheet metal screws with grade 8 bolts, about a third of the dry wall screws with bolts and large washers, and the rest of them with deck screws.

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Real Benefit of Synthetic Oil

'Crank crank' Engine starts[?]

Blubber Blubber (engine idling)[?]
Wait for half a minute
No VROOM! VROOM![?]
Only Blubber Blubber.[?]
Depress Clutch,(still Blubber Blubber)[?]
Release Clutch gradually Blubber..Pant...Blubber..Pant (that is engine with just a wee bit of accelerator),[?]
Murmur murmur (a bit more pressure on accelerator , say 1k on the Tach)[?]

LOL Joe you had me in splits here...

This is tricky. In India(especially dusty north, where I live), My opinion is a no for the oil filter.

The team-BHP forums suggests an oil change in 7K Kms (or 10K Kms at max).Although I think synthetic oil is better, I will probably stick to minerals as every 3-4 months( after 5Kkms) mineral give me opportunity to change oil/air filters & wash my GTX & 1.2.

If your car has run 50k kms, its not advisable to make a sudden shift to synthetic, the concept behind it being that the old engine gaskets cannot handle the slick oil and start leaking.Have not corroborated this, so take it with a pinch of salt, it was discussed some 3 years back in this forum when we were discussing oils.

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Warning on electricals and electronics

I totally agree. I had the electrician source the current from the fuse box and fixed a 15 AMPS fuse as well. I am so happy that that the car is running now.

The first was Mingma's post where he identified the source of his car's starting problem as the wiring to the new electric windows in the thread "Palio EL 1.2 2002 (65,000km) Starting issue ** under huge distress**". The other post was Venkat's query regarding adding power windows, rear de-fogger and wiper to his SDE in the thread "Accessories for Palio SDE 1.3 MJD".

It has been said before but it cannot be stressed enough. Do not let your run of the mill auto-electricians or accessory shop guys touch the electricals or electronics on any European car. It is a simple thing. Europeans wire their cars diffently from the Asians. There are many, many more Asian cars on our roads than European ones. Because they are so few, the quacks do not get enough European specimens to experiment on. Therefore, they never get to learn about the wiring of the car before they start working on your European beauty.

What you get is a hatchet job which gives rise to many problems. This is not to say that no accessories can be fitted onto European cars. One can fit almost any accessory one wants and upgrade most parts. However care must be taken to ensure that the guy fitting it is fully conversant with the wiring of YOUR car before he starts work. The most important thing about adding additional electrical / electronic stuff is where to tap the power. The tendency is to tap power from the closest available wire, the proper thing to do is not interfere with any existing circuit and to take power from a free slot in the fusebox. It might take some time and effort to find an installer / electrician who understands and knows about the wiring in your car. Consider that effort
and time to be an investment and it will give good returns.

It helps if you can be present when the installation is being done so that you know exactly what was done and can retrace the steps in case a problem surfaces. 

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Need Advice - Shuddering with AC on

how many Kms your car has been driven, when was the last time you changed the spark plug ?

Also, did anyone touch/clean the spark plug just before you started facing this problem ?

few more questions:

- with AC kept on when car is driven at 2nd gear with accelerator released completely. If you suddenly press the accelerator, do you face momentarily power loss ?

- One advice, I have completed all the routine part changes like timingbelt, spark plug. and throttle body cleaning & whatever. If not, get them done first. I experience dictates that sometime these problems just vanish after routine part changes.

- My car has run just over 40k KMs.

- Need to check about meometary power loss, will get back. But I don't think there is any power loss in 2nd gear.
- No, SPs were not cleaned before the problem started, however, they were cleaned by Prerana Motors during last service two weeks back when I told them about this problem. I will be going to them tomorrow again for this. Shall appreciate any pointers to help diagnosis.

as par user manual which comes with every fiat palio, spark plugs should be changed every 30K kms. If you have not does so, then please do. spark plug would cost around 1200 from authorized fiat workshop.

however, if you are in noida, call up aashirwad motors, C-120, sector 10 noida - 9212427610. Last weekend I visited his shop and saw genuine fiat palio spark plug with fiat india pvt ltd sticker. i don't know about prices.

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Tie Rods

Can't "Rare Parts" in CA rebuild them???

Butch got me a really nice gently used one for my 47 very nice part. I'll try to keep that in mind. One thing I'm exploring is rack and pinion. I've used Triumph Spitfire racks on racing Dune Buggies. They have a short housing and locate easily, but I might run into trouble with the geometry as it applies to a straight axle. Gotta look into flipping the spindles side to side and see what it'd be like. If I have to fool with swapping tie rod ends I may as well do the change for perfect steering and get rid of the Mickey Mouse box.  I'll never understand why it took American manufactures so long to "invent" R&P steering..........p
 

And, by the way. Does anyone have pricing or the phone number or address of Rare Parts?

Yep ,you guessed correct-R&P on a straight axle gives problems--we call it Bump steer. HOWEVER--I'm seeing more people using only half of the rack and making it cross steer to the far side.Something to think about as that stops the bump steer. 

As you probably have gleaned from my posts, I drive my cars. Most every day. The Crosleys have become the most pleasing to me, and pleasant to folks who find them in a parking lot or pass me on the road. It's a rare occasion that people don't wait for me to return to the parking lot from shopping or hang out of windows on the road waving with a huge smile in their faces. Even slowing traffic to stay beside for, "What is it" and "Who made it" info.

Makes my heart buzz. Or, at least it does something it hasn't done lately. Making folks happy has to be the most rewarding thing we can do in this life. But I want the cars to be safe and sound. While I come from the age when "pitching the wheel", a term that is best described a method of using the up play in steering boxes and linkages, was considered the norm as a kid, people who now learn to drive with modern automobiles are deprived of that experience. Sad. Skills lost.But lives saved.

Peter, my name sake grandson who is now 13, has put in for Mr. Truk. He's in love with it. Has pictures of him in it. It'll be handed down when I'm dead and it'll be the safest I can make it.That puts a real challenge on me. If I felt I might find parts to achieve the steering precision with the original Crosley parts, as I experianced them 50 + years ago, I'd go that way. Ain't been obvious to me that I can, so far.

Any help for Peter and me would be most appreciated...............p&p

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47CC

The only complaints I could have with my Crosleys would be the steering. I was able to rebuild every thing in both cars to "as new" except the steering. If I could get new tie rod and drag links I'd be able to clean up the loose ends and do king pins & bushings too. I'm told that new parts or new units are available for the steering gears. I'd say your lucky to have a tight one.

After almost five years I am about to register my 47CC so I got a temp plate and out driving it around...It runs strait and true with not even a hint of bump steer with not too shabby handling for such a narrow car [ah, as long as you remember that]..Like I remember...Trans is so noisy in first and second, shifting up grinds less than down shifting even with the double clutching I "used" to be so good at and the car actually being able to go up moderate hills in third and above 30 mph is what I don't remember..I supposed in time [if I don't get runt over] I will remember more....Had trouble walking out of a Wendy's tonite so I guess its tit for tat or some other neat saying..

How bout some pictures?

Congratulations You are my hero today! I worked on my 48 sedan all night (too hot in daytime)and just got homeat 2am. These rascules make you do strange things to get them back on the road. I would love to see a story about your restoration with pics!!

A HERO, NEAT!!! About the only thing that has gone right in the last two weeks..I was driving around at 1am this morning, think I gotta get the headlights alined a little better, over 45mph and I couldn't see that well..The gas gage don't move much do they??..Pete, I'm surprised you couldn't find some foriegn stuff [tierods] that would be acceptable? I got some that were pretty small for a project years ago, I'll have to see if I still got the boxes for a part number..I went through the steering box a couple years ago but didn't have to do much [well, not that I'd remember now] other than adjusting..One thing that was a problem is the drag link balls/sockets, nothing is case hardened so if overtightened or not lubed enough will wear to a "set", makes steering ridiculous hard..I "think" I opened a folder in CC photo album with some pics..The Green One ..

Up date: I opened two folders and not in CC folder, oops..One has pics and one is empty; Jim can you make the empty one disappear? I could delete the pics but thats it..

Beautiful! Very nice job.

I like the ash tray in the speaker grill. Most typical for the period, and I thrive on that stuff. Gimmie anything Western Auto, Monkey Ward, or, or, darn, I can't remember the other name for JC Whitney!!!

Any hoo, I like the cars we have are spiced up with all the old cheapie accessories found at auto related stores. That goes for my Whizzers, old motorcycles, cars and bicycles too. It will take us back to when we, as youths, were dangerous. Loaded loose cannons on a slippery deck.

One of my favorites is the "Necking Knob". (You may know it by another name) It was the steering wheel mounted knob. An invention that allowed the driver's left arm to steer while his right arm could explore other territory's.

Genius device, as far as my experience would tell.

It also might change an intended sharp turn into disaster if it hung up in yer sleeve.

Blessed we are, if we are still here and havin' this much fun.....................p
Very nice CC sedan Seb.

Ok I moved your pictures into the CC folder and names them so they could be grouped together. Here is a pointer to the first one just hit next.
http://tinyurl.com/24323yt

And I have deleted your empty folders.

You don't remember Warshawsky?

That was their real name. The J.C. Whitney was a name made up to have wider
appeal. The Crosley J has a W/A radio.

Thanks for the compliment Pete..When I was a kid them was called Suicide knobs..Trick ones used to lock out of the way..Had one on the Farmal A [older brother put it on]and good thing as the steering ratio was about 20 turns lock to lock..After all the time I spent on that tractor now ya tell me there was supposed to be girls involved?? Sheesh, another thing I missed....I'm going to call my brother and give em' heck for not telling me!!

I took the wife out for Ice Cream today..Although it got a little hot [3/4th scale=195°] it still did well on hills with proper "attack"..Pulled into a parking spot and on the bench on the grass was bunch of kids..I thought I scared them, the wife said it was more of "surprise" and I really think they chuckled; well maybe more like laughed..Sokay, getting used to that!!

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Lotus reveals radical new direction

Of course you refer to the 'new' Elite - the 'original' was the Type 14...

If you think about it, it could be either Elite. At the time the only streeteable car Lotus sold was the VI. The Seven and Elite were introduced at the same time. The original Elite, a GT car, was definitely up market.The Elite's pricing, at the end of the run, was similar to that of an E Type.Of course I am referring to the Type 14 Elite.

This was Chapman's first attempt to move up-market. The car was state of the art or beyond in literally every aspect. Formula suspension, adapted race engine, bespoke transmission, monocoque body, etc, etc. A road car that could be driven to the track and raced - a true sports car. Competitive on the race track throughout and after its production. Too expensive for what it offered and under appreciated by the casual sports car crowd, it lost money for Lotus. The follow on Elan 26 was a money maker but not nearly as pure an automotive design.

I must have driven a different Evora. The one I drove had heavy, dead steering, overly boosted non-linear  brakes (the salesman warned me about them before I started), transmission with strange ratio gaps. My girl friend also got a test drive. She has driven my Elan many times, and her comments were similar. Reading between the lines, it is a tough market competing against Ferrari, Porsche, etc. It might be easier to carve a niche with an uprated version of their range extender engine in a very small ultra light weight two seater that could appeal to people who look for a more modern version of the Miata (which is a modern version of the Elan) or of the S2000 in a more socially responsible package.

I've owned a couple of 'new' Elites- I've never had the chance to drive the original Elite. I quite liked the new Elite, handled very well, quite comfortable and even looked good. Many things were quite a pain to work on (the AC/Heat system with all those hoses and poor connectors are no fun) and perhaps more troublesome than the other Lotus cars I've owned. They were light for a 4-seat car of it's type, I recall just over 2000 lbs.

Not much more than the Elise. (I never weighed mine, so I don't know if the specs I remember are accurate).

I certainly liked the way my early Europas (type 54, federal) drove better. Much lighter and responsive.
The Elise reminded me much of a modern early Europa in a lot of ways, although it didn't have the 'dancing' feeling of the early cars- it has incredible feedback (and more power etc). PLUS it is super reliable. While I don't currently have a Lotus (just didn't have time to drive the Elise, so it is gone) another will come my way I'm certain.

I hope they keep making the Elise, since I really, really enjoyed that car. I'm not sure they can do well going up market either, but hope they can stay afloat."not nearly as pure an automotive design." That's certainly a matter of opinion that many would debate.Reading between the lines, it is a tough market competing against Ferrari, Porsche, etc. It might be easier to carve a niche with an uprated version of their range extender engine in a very small ultra light weight two seater that could appeal to people who look for a more modern version of the Miata (which is a modern version of the Elan) or of the S2000 in a more socially responsible package. Some folks in the U.S. may not be aware that Lotus has released a new entry level Elise as of June 2010 that has a Toyota 1.6 liter engine with 134 horsepower which gets 45 miles per imperial gallon:

http://www.topgear.com/uk/lotus/elise/road-test/1.6

"The new entry-level Elise emits just 149g/km of CO2 while returning 45mpg." "Lotus claims the new Elise provides 'the most performance per gram of CO2 of any sports car in the world'."

That's perhaps as far as the concept can be pushed and about as light as a production car intended for world wide distribution can be made.

Unfortunately due to all the current regulations, it would probably be very difficult to make cars as light as any of the mostly fiberglass, metal backbone Lotuses.

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Red Leather

Looking for someone to recover the steering wheel for my 1966 Lotus 41 in the original red leather. They need to be located in the SF Bay Area. Any leads would be greatly appreciated. My local upholstery guy doesn't do hand stitching I found out today. can't help is that area, but a steering wheel is easy to ship - have a great guy here in FL. Need to get it done closer to home though. Been busy getting the car ready to run the GGLC trackday at Thunderhill on July 13. The last time I drove this car was in 1967 when I was just sixteen. It would really suck to not have a steering wheel and miss the trackday after doing all this prep work.

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Fiat 500

I happened to come across a very familiar car on my trip. A Fiat 500. Not the ones being advertised, but a 1948 model! 

I knew it was a Fiat 500 only now.

I recognised it from my childhood (circa. 1959) because my father bought one. We had it for just a week before my father sold.

We did have a 1948 Ford V8. But, like all fathers of all eras , my mother's insistence that we own a second car finally broke down his defenses and so he went ahead a bought us a second car.Financial constraints dictated he picked something cheap.This Fiat seemed to fit the bill of all his requirements. I think it cost him all of Rs.2000.00

As soon as he bought it, my father packed my mother and six of us siblings into it on a trip to Peermade.(Enroute to Thekkady) By the time we reached midway, the radiator water had to be changed about 10 times!! 

On the ghat roads, every half kilometer traveled caused steam to come out of every opening on the bonnet. In those days vehicles on the road were as plentiful as a citizen friendly Indian budgets. So it was probably after quite a lot of steam inhalation that we met another car. In those days no car owner worth speaking about traveled without THE driver. The DRIVER was a demi-god who was one of the few individuals of those times who had any knowledge of what was under the bonnet of a car.My father having packed his loved ones into the Fiat like an over packed can of sardines, found no place for his own demi-god, unfortunately. The car a taxi from Kanjirapally, was one of those war era Plymouths or Chevorlets.

I still remember the heavenly being stepping out of the other car and walking up to our leaking pressure cooker of a Fiat. We all held our collective breath while he pulled the clips/clasps on the two bonnet wings and swung them up. For a few seconds he was lost to view due to the steam that engulfed him. But he brushed the steam aside, made a loud snort of disgust and asked my father what kind of fool he was to buy this Fiat. My father was enraged, demi-god or not, an insult had been thrown at him and he would have taken up the issue to a physical level. But luckily the DRIVER continued and told him that this model of Fiat had no water pump. 

My father was stunned.He asked the DRIVER if he was sure? A radiator, yes. A fan yes, A fan belt yes.But no water pump. This car was just able to cope with a single passenger on level roads only.Uphill never.Good in Sahib's on country for taking out Madama on a short trip to market but not fit for India to cart wife and children anywhere.Another loud snort of disgust.

Later on when older I came to understand what all this was about. This car was the predecessor of what came out much later as the'Bug' Fiat, which too had a similar cooling system. The convection currents in the water were supposed to move the water through the radiator! My father had no other option but to load us into the taxi. With the help of the taxi's Cleaner*, a rope was run between the front of the Fiat and the rear bumper of the taxi. * The Cleaner is another, but lesser demi-god of those days who traveled on the platform outside the doors of olden cars.He had the job of working the starting handle when the car needed to be started.If that did not work he pushed the car till the driver could get the engine going.Push starting was not so difficult with 8 or 6 cylinder low compression engines of those times.When he had free time he would even make attempts to give the car a wash.*

So, like a retreating army we returned. All of us in the taxi.Except my father and the Cleaner following faithfully under tow till the level ground of Kanjirapally. Then it was back home with a dozen more water changes on the way. That was the last time any of us rode that Fiat. It stood forlornly in front of our house for a couple of days before the car broker was able to get somebody more foolish than my father to come and buy it. 

Probably if it was wrapped and stored to the present, it would have been worth a packet as an antique. Excellent reading, brought the memories of my first baptism to cars our very own FIAT Premier Padmini way back long ago in my life (1985 I suppose) when my father too had bought a 2nd hand car & took me by surprise one day to a very desolete god forsaken road without informing my mother about him giving me the 1st driving lesson & the wheels of the car which I was always asking him to drive and get my 1stdriving lessons which incidently was very short one.

All the while the car ran well from the garage of the bunglow where we stayed (for 30 years my father served in Gokak Mills Belgaum) to a nearby remote place an unpronouncible village named Godchinmalki and gave me the car to drive. Until then I too never knew why we were heading on this road into the wilderness and never knew he had plans to give me the car for my 1st driving lessons. Until then I was his official cleaner.

I started off well by putting th car in the 1st gear and let go the clutch and it stalled & died on me. Got a good scolding from my father to release the clutch gently and then we took off and after some time and it all looked wonderful to me, the rush of the adraneline and all and suddenly the car it came to a stand still for no apperent reason what so ever.

We both looked at each other & he had no reason to blame me for this. i remember him saying now what? He asked me to crank & I remember trying couple of cranking. He said get off & let me try starting and all that coaxing & cajoling by cranking the car just produced a lot of grr grr grr and nothing.

Then it was time for his master's command for the faithful slave - PUSH!!!

I remember pushing, pushing & pushing and it was scorching hot aftrnoon sun and after a long hard push & him trying to jump start failed on us & I honestly fainted & fell on the road due to extreme dehydration.

I was knocked off for a long time and him running to me & pulling me up & remember putting me into the back seat and trying to desperately trying to revive me back to breathe & back to life. After a lot of time I slowly got back to my senses & he asked me if I was alright and guess what there was no water inside the car to drink. I was so thristy never in all my life I realized how precious water was until I never had.

The place was so desolete & we were so far away from civilization and we did not know what to do. After a very long wait we found a 2 wheeler coming & hitched a ride to the nearest village leaving my father behind to wait inside the car sitting in a hot furnace & from the village to a far away small town took a local bus and managed to find a mechanic and came in his 2 wheeler and he opened up the bonnet and found the culprit. My father was pretty worried due to my 3 hour absence. The mechanic found a whole lot of dust in the Carborator.

Luckily the mechanic knew what he was doing & cleaned the carb & got the car running. He just said luckily we had not run the battery dry trying to crank crank. Father drove the car back & we reached home safe and got a good ear full of blasting from my mother for not informing her about the planned baptism of giving driving lessons & putting her son through hell!!!

Anyway thats history now. With that I am now signing off & shutting down and packing off from Cochin now back to Coimbatore (200 km drive) now in my GTX. I still remind my father about that day now when he sits in front with me some time.

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six months old SDX:paint issues!!

I own a magnesium grey 2009 SDX. Recently i noticed that the rear left door and the front left fender happen to be of a different color than the rest of the car. This was confirmed (by the service manager) to be a mfg defect the last time i took my car to Concorde (last sat'day). This looks like a gradual fade out bcoz the color difference wasnt so obvious at the time of purchase. But in the last two weeks, this diff has bcome glaringly obvious. My 6 month old car is now looking like junkyard scrap.  

The intriguing part is FIAT REFUSED to re-paint this under warranty. The reason they are citing is that my vehicle has met with an accident once and that the warranty for the body parts are void after an accident!!!

This is totally absurd because the accident happened due to scraping with a bike on the RIGHT hand side. And the faulty paint job is on the LEFT door and fender. Since the vehicle was bought, i didnt have even a tiny scratch on the door and fender for which am claiming warranty. Any idea abt who at FIAT/TATA motors is responsible for such mindless warranty policy??

ou should not accept this excuse! Its a well known fact that Fiat has paint issues, please take it up with them, if necessary in a consumer court. Getting it repainted at your expense can set you back by almost 10k!

Who in fiat told you that they will not do it under warranty?

I never heard of any Stile having paint issues, did you? I've heard SOME of the older Palio owners complaining abt the paint fading/peeling away. I personally didn't speak wid anyone frm FIAT yet. The service manager says there is someone from FIAT at TATA motors who takes such decisions on warranty (or so i understand). Yesterday, the service manager said that a higher-up official from TATA motors is scheduled to visit concorde next week and they will show my vehicle to him and get his opinion it seems! I don't know if this higher-up frm TATA motors can over-rule FIAT's warranty policy!

When i told the service manager that i will talk to the FIAT officials myself, he asked me not to do that until after next week. Something looks fishy here....

Getting it re-painted myself might cost around 10,000 but not sure how much it costs to take this to consumer court. I am hoping the issue will be resolved without resorting to such extreme steps.

The Stile version does come with poor paint quality. It will be 2 years for me this September but havent observed fading but issues with scratches. That shows the depth of the paint quality. A slight scratch in my F.Red displays the white background. A little scratch in Plastic components exposes the black portion. It is just very poor I should say.

I'm not sure how the Mag Grey fairs in such cases.

The Palio Stile doesn't reflects the superior quality of the retro Palios in all aspects. At the early launch of Punto and Linea, I heard FIAT got a separate Paint booth in their plant so that should be doing good job now in new cars.

Incase of your problem, what I would suggest you is take snapshots of the door and fender with the obvious differences and send this to FIAT Service as well as the Dealer manager. Let them be aware that xyz person mentioned to you that this does not come in warranty etc and if that is true. Atleast you can get confirmation if that info is true from the horses mouth and what can be done to resovle your matter.

Also submit your accident and repair details where it was done. This leaves them with no chance that ur claim is false. I assume they should treat this under warranty and acknowledge as factory paint defect. If you want to wait, you can meet up the TATA guys and mention about your problem and see what they say so the stile version does have paint issues too! I never knew that small scratches resulting in black scratches shud b attributed to a poor paint job. In dat case, its even bad wid mag-gray, the smallest of black scratch becomes very obvious

The accident repair was carried out at Concorde. Infact this color difference was noted when i was taking delivery of my car frm them after the accdnt repairs. When i pointed it out to them, they took a snapshot immediately and sent out the mail to FIAT. I just asked my service advisor to give me some doumented proof that paint/color warranty stands void incase of any accident to any part of the car.

I went thru almost every line in my warranty policy and service manual booklet. It just mentions that color/paint warranty is valid for 18 months provided the car is properly stored and maintained by owner. For accidents, it mentions that any damage to the parts involved in accident or any other consequential damage will not be covered by warranty.

One more thing, i can't say for sure that it's a fading issue. The other day during PUG meet, Raveendra was looking at my vehicle and spotted this difference and was saying that it might be because of batch variations. It looks like there is an initial color diff due to batch variations, but that got more prominent as the faulty color gradually faded out while the rest of the car remained shining..

You are right in your assumption about Fiat specialists at Tata Showrooms. At least, that is what I experienced at Concorde Dairy Circle (Bangalore). You should contact them for a trouble-free experience.

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Has Anyone Seen This 4x4 Van

I haven't posted in a while and I'm curious if anyone has seen this E-150 conversion van with a Quigley 4x4 system. It's a 1990 E-150 that was posted on E-Bay back in November of 2001 as an estate sale. I was trying to get up to Tennessee to see it before the auction terminated but unfortunately we were running some critical tests so I couldn't get off. Anyway it sold to someone out in the upper Northwest for about 7K which was a good price considering it only had 50K miles on it. About 2 years later it was listed on the autotrader web site for 9K with 90K miles on it and the seller only had a fuzzy expanded Icon photo of it so there was no telling what the condition was at that time. I've always wondered what happened to this van and if it may possible be up for sale again. I've attached some photos that I received from the executor of the estate back in 2001.

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Lotus wants to appeal to a broader market

This makes no sense. We already have a Porsche, a Ferrari and an Aston Martin. We don't have another Lotus, certainly not in the USA, where other lightweight cars have not penetrated. So Lotus trying to be Porsche, Ferrari or Aston Martin is goofy. They should be Lotus, and find ways to be MORE Lotus and not more like Porsche, Ferrari and Aston Martin.

Lotus has been attempting to go upmarket since the original Elite, which was still recognizably a Lotus. The latest Lotus, the Evora, is hardly a historically accurate follow on what with 3,000+ lb weight, four seats, V-6, AC, etc and it does not even drive like a Lotus (drive one and compare the experience to an Elite, Elan, or Europa).

One could argue that the future of the IC engined vehicle is going to be smaller engined lighter weight. So a development of the 3 cylindered engine around a small light weight car would be a good example of a viable car in the Lotus tradition.

To blame are Lotus management, the Board of Directors, and the stockholders. They are the ones that set the future of the company. But then Chapman wanted to go upmarket. So even the founder sowed the seeds for future failure.

You might be right about the Evora being less of a "Lotus" than the Elise . . . but the Evora is still much closer to the Lotus tradition than almost any other car with its profile on the market. . . . and it is merely an attempt to broaden the appeal of the brand beyond the teeth chattering, tight two seater that is the Elise.

It is no surprise that Lotus wants to appeal to a broader market than just those of us who want to drive an Elise (where the passenger seat is fixed and is 3/4 the width of the driver's seat and your butt is four inches off the roadway, and you and your passenger have to crowbar in your body every time you enter and exit -- none of which bothers me, but we Elise lovers sure aren't the mainstream).

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Review on Pete's box

A month back I installed Pete's box on my 18months and 39K kms old Palio MJD. Now currently I am at 43k kms, so it has been 4k kms that I have been on with it.  I am not much of a technical person ( though I am a mechanical engineer ) but still I will put in my basic thoughts for all to read.

1. The gear change has decreased, so less usage of clutch.
2. What all I was able to achieve in from gears 1 to 4, now the same can be achieved in a one higher gear. I mean instead of down shifting to 2nd the same can be managed in 3rd. Same is the case with all gears.
3. Though I am not a racer, I am a very sedate driver, but that does not mean that I drive at punny speeds of 50-60. My route to work includes a 20km stretch of DEL-GURGAON expressway and on daily basis I fetch 140kmph on odo, the difference before and after Pete's is of 20kmph, earlier I use to cruise at 120kmph now I can do that at 140kmph.
4. This may surprise a few, post Pete's my FE has gone up by a km. Pre Pete's I was consistently getting 20kmpl ( I face some of worst traffic jams daily, non expressway run ) and post Pete's I am getting 21kmpl and the reason for the same is that I haven't changed my driving style. The moment you try to become a racer post Pete's installation ur FE will get a hit.
5. I have 40+k old YOKO A-Drives on my SDX and they provide me with excellent braking and road manners. NCR PUG meet attendees will be able to comment on my tyres.
6. I am still with stock filters.
7. Pete's box has 3 different stages that I can be set on, I am on 2nd stage, it takes Torque from 190Nm to 215Nm and BHP from 75 to 90.

I hope I have been able to review it to everybody's liking :-)
 

This Good review of the Petes but does you car gives blacker exhaust because of the box? And when you go for service can you remove them without any fuss?

No Doubt on Kamesh's Yoko A Drive are awesome, no can believe on they had run this much, it still looks as brand new and in immaculate condition.The box costed me 28k. Yeah the shift can be done at your, but for stage you have to the filters and in all probabilities you will have to switch to conical filter. Gains, welll the BHP goes just above 100 and torque goes up to 230Nm.
 

You will be surprised to know that post Pete's my car has minimized emitting black smoke. Pre Pete's, on sudden acceleration I used to get a lot of black smoke.  Not sure why?
 

Regarding removing the box, yes that's a 5 min job, but I don't both to remove it when I am going for service. The box is so small and well placed that until you are pointed towards the box no one would notice it ;)

Is it possible or worthy to fix petes' kit 1 into a palio stile petrol 1.1 litre engine?

Pete's tuning boxes are only available for Diesel engines. Just a small add on- Petes boxes are available only for common rail diesel engines....

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Lotus reveals radical new direction

Lotus reveals radical new direction Lotus is planning a radical shake-up of its heritage as it pushes

upmarket to take on Porsche, Ferrari and Aston Martin as part of what it is calling "the dawn of a new era". The radical restructuring includes dropping founder Colin Chapman's 'lightweight and simple' ethos for all new cars, instead using more complex, more expensive and more upmarket manufacturing techniques.

Chapman probably choked on his Argentine beer when he read this... The new cars will be much heavier because of the added weight of all of those buzzwords. "The average car will cost £80,000-£110,000, the prices being justified by the use of technology including seven-speed twin clutch
transmissions, active aerodynamics, continuously variable dampers, hybrid and range extender systems, heads up displays, and the option of more alternatively-fuelled variants." Working in the software industry, I found that the best way to kill a company is to let Marketing control development.
 

Very scary idea (if one cares about the long term existence of Lotus) but was rather inevitable after the head honcho hired more and more of his former cohorts at Ferrari. I think Lotus needs to be able to sell their cars for more since due to low volume the production costs are most likely higher. Seems to me you can still produce and sell a reasonable lightweight and nimble car with reasonable luxury without ending up with a heavy, complex vehicle. i don't deny there is a great thrill to be had to drive a car with lots of hp and torque. On the other hand, most of that is unusable 99.9% of the time.

One of my favorite lotus cars is the Seven America version that was built to meet SCCA class standards. Not very powerful and ultimately not that fast but a perfect match of components that gives good acceleration and an incredible sense of speed, along with tremendous agility. true fun that can be enjoyed most of the time (of course i wouldn't mind driving one of Caterham's fire breathing monsters on occasion!!).

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Problems Galore in my Palio

It has been long time since i left my Palio for service..Just to avoid frustrations with TATA. Now I have other no option but to go. Here are the problems I have now.. Please let me know what needs to be looked into and changed.

1. The clutch is too hard to press nowadays. I get severe leg pain after driving. Is replacement of 

clutch a better option.
 

2. The car from outside, sounds like a Diesel Car and I have very high noise inside the cabin. I am not sure whether it is coming from the Fan or from the dashboard.
 

3. The fuel indicator reacts slowly and always low fuel light is glowing and after driving for 15-20 kms it shows the correct fuel indication.

There are certain things in life we hate for sure but that does not mean you can't leave your car for service as per the service interval of 7500 km usage. I get mine done at every 5K.

No matter what do not miss the service intervals & later crib that the car has got spoiled. Dont't take this comment to heart. I meant in a lighter vein. Servicing the car which means Oil Change, Air filter, Oil Filter change, wheel alignment & balancing, topping up of other fluids, maintaining correct air pressure, checking the condition of the battery during service etc etc is very important for the car for its better functioning & also to ensure reliability & safety.

I am sharing with you a link & suggest please click on this & it will tell any one how to maintain your car at different kilometer intervals.

Maintenance schedule (Servicing)
 

To answer to your question below

1. Try Clutch bleeding / ask service centre to check the master & slave cylinder & clutch system to give you an idea. In all probability the time has com for you to change the entire clutch system from the way you have mentioned how hard it has become & you have signed off mentioning 50000 kms.

In case if you need to change the whole stuff then be prepared to meet the costs. This link below might help you to be prepared for the cost.
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/PalioUsersIndia/message/58390 - MN

2.Regarding Noise levels inside the car i.e Petrol Car sounding like a Diesel - well I am not too sure, may be it is the 2nd fan motor that gets on at high temp & while the AC is on. Check this out with the service station.

3. Regarding the fuel indicator reacting slowly and showing correct fuel after 15-20 kms of driving is erratic. May be the service station might be able to tell you whether they can clean the sensor or get it changed if possible.

I also suggest please replace the spark plugs (interval is only 10000 kms) so if you haven't so far changed the sparks then please do so.

Regarding servicing it in Chennai - I believe there are quite a lot of members in hennai who can recommend good workshops.

Let us see who reacts from Chennai.

TATA FIAT ASS is fully preoccupied with indica and cabs. Please look out for a reliable servive station other than ASS. If you are closer to Anna nagar you can try RAMS Racing's Bosch service station. I strongly recomend them for their genuine advise and reasonable charges. The service station is on the road Just opposite to Concorde showroom in Mogapair.

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rear wind screen

The rear wind sheild of my palio 1.2 el model 2003 has been smashed by some miscreants while it was parked.  I have been referred to concorde workshop by the insurer, for the claims and service, but the work shop fellows could not find the original defogger glass anywhere in Hyderabad and appraised me that it is impossible to find as the model being old and can be replaced with the normal wind sheild.

I hereby request you all the puggers to help me out to find the availability of the defogger type wind sheild anywhere in India.

Pls try Vamsi auto spares secunderabad @+9140 64539469.

Isn't Fiat supposed to source spares for a period of up to 10 years?So you should get all genuine spares till 2013. If this is incorrect, please let me know the correct thing.

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Can this be a problem with some belt?

After nearly three decades my family of 16 members has decided to go on a family vacation in Kerala starting 2nd July. For the same we would need to hire a 16-seater Tata Winger or Tempo Traveller from Ernakulam to Munnar. Could any of you help in reaching out to a reliable travel agency who could have such a van for hire. We also plan to spend some time at Tekkady and then Kolam--with a gap of two days betwen each destination starting Munnar. For the connecting journey as well, we would be needing the vehicle. May I therefore request you to mail me the contacts.

Just a gentle reminder to all that the good Dr. Sunil had posted a few months ago the detrimental effects of performance filters like K&N, Green Cotton, Piper Cross etc. I fully endorse his views that the additional dust that gets in past the filters and the fine oil mist that comes from thesefilters mucks up the sensors in the throttle body and then cause trouble in

the engine. If the car has a turbo, then the dust will cause havoc in the turbo, these performance filters are definitely a no-no for cars with turbochargers.

I would strongly recommend going back to good stock paper element filters at least for the dusty summer months.

Another ignorant brain here!!

Can we install this for Palio Stile 1.6 Sport? What is the use of this filters? How will it help my 1.6? What is the approx labor charge?

I agree with you, unless you are willing to clean these oil based filters every 2 months in the Indian conditions, its not worth risking your engine.

The K&N can be easily cleaned, but the charges are around 400 bucks and a days time for them to dry. If you can live with it, go for it.

I have booked Palio Stile from Concord Bangalore. Still havent received the car. I understand the car has still not been despatched.

Which dealer have you booked your palio?

I booked a 2009 MJD SDX in KHT motors on 27th of may, did you book 2009 or 2010 vehicle.

I had booked a 2010 model from Concorde, it has not been dispatched yet, guess will be getting it sometime in July only.

I have booked Stile 1.1 2009 model on 29th May. I keep following up with Concorde but dont think the vehicle has been despatched yet.

I cant understand why it is taking so much time to deliver a vehicle which is a year old.

BTW, Fortune motors powai service center has now shifted to Marwah industrial estate road. They are now closer to my office.Mr. Rajendran an ex-anuroop and well versed about Palios..

They are now in a temporary place which services Trucks and Tempos. This place is horribly crowded and frustrating to even stand out there. However the good thing is they have purchased a new plot just besides it which they plan to shift in a month probably. Sorry about the delay, was caught up in quite a few things with shifting into the apartment and completing admin formalities at the workplace.

The vote is predominantly towards Fortune Powai and I guess I will be taking the car there over the weekend. My local number is yet to be active and will share it with you in a couple of days.

The Fortune Body Shop is located at Vikroli, you need not take your vehicle to Powai, since they are cramped (short space) they will send you to Vikrolionly. You can get in touch with Mr Rajesh @ 9223320918, he is the body shop in-charge who will help you. If need be you can give my reference to him. am based in bangalore ..but took delivery of the vehicle from kannur;kerala

How is the Fuel Injector cleaned in a Palio (1.2 petrol)?

I was told, not all mechanics can clean the fuel injector and should be taken to specialized centers like Lucas for getting it cleaned.

Has anyone on Bangalore got their injectors cleaned? if Yes, then where? you could try fuel additives to clean

Urgently looking for a well used and good condition Fiat Adventure 1.6 or Palio 1.6 for sale in Bangalore. Anyone selling or who has any leads of such vehicles available for sale, plz reply asap. Thanks. You can contact Tushar , he had a friend of his who wanted to sell the 1.6 GTX of his.

Tushar is reachable on 9945116724

I'm planning to change the tyres of my Palio 1.2 elx 2002 model. Please can you suggest what would be the best choice to go for?

I heard Bridgestone 185/70 R13 will be better choice. I'm slightly concerned about changing from the stock measures. Will it be a problem if i change it.

My primary concern is ride quality and handling with not a huge impact in FE. I'll be driving my car in Chennai conditions.

Also suggest a tyre dealer in Madurai where the car is in at the moment.

I had compiled a list for myself as I didn't want to change what FIAT recommends.

In order of my preference Apollo Acelere 165/80 R 13 83H Tubeless (not sure if you get them tubeless, pls check) Goodyear GPS2 165/80 R13 tubeless (not sure if you get them tubeless, pls check) Bridgestone 165/80 R13 with tube JK Ultima XPS 165/80 R13 83T with tube CEAT 165/80 R13 Milaze with tube.

I need this information as I am hunting again for a 1.9D in Bangalore.

The fuel pump went kaput around 45k kms in my 2003 Palio 1.9D. Had to spend around 25k on repairs.

*"I came across information that the fuel pump of the 1.9D manufactured in 2003 was a problem."*

Is this information correct or do all the fuel pumps of 1.9D irrespective of year of manufacture have the same problem.Looks like the screeching bug has bitten my car too.

Day before yesterday we, Hyderabadis, had the first taste of the real monsoon. Unfortunately my car had to do the same. It is a 13 Kms drive from my office to home and it was raining relentlessly all the while. After around half hour drive in the rain, I was first unable to put the car in first gear, then there was some difficulty in shifting to 2nd too. Somehow reached home and parked for the night. Next morning onwards i am noticing this screeching noise on the startup of the car.

I have gone through the arcihve, but this seems like a different problem. First of all the screeching sound is not limited to cold startups only. I mean, it comes everytime I start the car. Second is, the noise goes away right after the car starts. So technically the sound remains for some mili seconds.

Can this be a problem with some belt? And a point to note is, the problem with shifting gears has gone away now.

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Front Coil springs

Hi people, I have a dana 44 in front end on a E350 I believe It's a 1978-79 with coil springs My question is there any away to lift it 2-3 more inches? Do they make taller springs? And where do I find them? Thanks for any input :

International Spring can make you longer springs. You just need to provide them with the spring rating info. located in the drivers door jam and then lift you want. Alcan Spring are good for leaf Springs, but thats just my opinion. I have 1 3/4" higher lift spacers under my springs that aren't ideal, but are doing OK untill I get custom made coils spring from International (this company was receomended to my on this forum). I understand that if you have an E350/E250, you can also use E150 spring towers that are shorter by an inch or so that will give you the same in lift height. You'll have to cut of the rivets and replace them with Grade 8 + bolts. Double check this though. I reckon its easier to have the springs made; less work!I'm sure you can get lift springs or lift spacers. Either for an older bronco or spacers for a new super duty.

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12 volt

I have been helping a member change his 47 sedan too 12 volt, it is now negative ground. How do you get the gas gauge to read right?? It is reading backwards. I have tried swaping the wires but no change, I tried swaping the wires on the voltage reducer, no change. Do i need to swap the amp guage wires?? I know it will read backwards, but we would rather have the gas gauge read correctly.

For the most part--12 volt has little or no effect on the fuel guage--Been doing it for years.When changing from - to + the amp gauge will read backwards.Just reverse the wires on the gauge(amp). I am planning to add a small 6 volt battery with a push button for the gas gauge on mine when I change to 12 volt negative ground.

That will work but it's a lot of unnecessary extras.

We have a voltage reducing regulator (not just a resister) that attaches to the back of the fuel gauge to regulate the voltage to a steady 6 volts and make the gauge read correctly.

The correct way (IMHO)is probably cheaper also.

Butch and Fonda Williams, Service Motors, 1-574-664-3313, www.servicemotors.net

why? The gauge reads ohms, not volts or polarity. 6 volt, 12 volt it doesn't care. If it reads backwards then the float wire is bent the wrong way. I had a fuel gauge problem also. I put in new gauges and the gas gauge was not properly grouinded to the panel, when it was reinstalled. I could bump the dash and it would jump up to full. But when the key was turned off it would go down and stay, even after the key was back on.I pulled the gauge assembly back out, removed the gas gauge, cleaned where it mounted and put everything back in and it works beautifly now. Problem solved.

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Finally, and my first accident!

Would like to say that I really miss the pleasure of driving in Mumbai in the past few years.

Previously enjoyed the quick disciplined drivers who never jumped lanes nor honk unneccesarily and best was night driving with headlamps dipped (Pune really is the winner for glaring
highbeam habit)

Seems we have better vehicles but have forgotten basic driving ethics. Pune has the most notorious two wheelers and those autos...... they rule the roads ( Either by just refusing to give side, just cruise along at snails pace while hunting for customers or the scary spot turns ,180 degress without any hint). Add to these the new breed of Indicabs serving the various software parks. Lately the public transport buses need to stop in the middle of the road at the stops (maybe a limitation of the power steering ?......wonder wonder)

Thus we are always trying find our way in the above scenari., Still wonder why my preferred mode is driving the beloved Palio. Hope there is some sanity restored.

my feelings may be off topic but i have no qualms stating that mumbai drivers are among the worst in the country - the most horrible are the ones in Ahmedabad and Agra, IMHO :-)

people in Mumbai have long back forgotten or shunned driving ethics and discipline they were known for ( I first saw immaculate traffic and lane discipline when i had first visited mumbai in 1991 - i was thrilled that Indians can be so wonderful drivers).

But thereafter, I have been a regular visitor to the city during 2002-07, and then also lived there during 2008-09 and my experience was pathetic.

Ram, you especially need to watch out in Navi Mumbai.. the drivers in Navi mumbai are a shame - mostly nouveau riche or yuppies at their game of one-upmanship and also dangerous drivers.

take care and be safe,
cheers

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sell 1952 Crosley pick up

1952 Crosley pick up, registered as a 1951 vin 402525. Completely rebuilt/refurbished drivetrain, suspension and frame. Work done by former Crosley employee. NEW - tires hoses. belts, door and window rubbers, exhaust, etc REBUILT/Refurbished - engine, transmission, rear end, shocks, radiator etc. NEEDS paint, wiring, glass(have old glass for patterns) upholstery.

This vehicle has a perfect floor pan, gauge cluster and many extra parts

It has always been a California truck, WITH ONLY 17,000 ORIGINAL MILES.

I am selling because of health reasons even though it is "close" to being finished.

The price is below my material costs and I am charging ZERO for labor. It needs a good home. Yes I have the rocker panels not showing in the picture.
http://tinyurl.com/34lbegf

$3750 located near Sacramento, CA - Brad Martin 530-642-2463 bnjmartin01@sbcglobal.net

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My prewar cranks like hell

You might have a bad spot on your flywheel ring gear............ I have the same problem...My prewar cranks like hell. Then, when it starts to sputter like it will start, the bendix on the starter kicks out. This happens when it is cold.

The starter has now locked up on me three times in the engaged position from this. I just yanked it earlier this week and sent it out for the 3rd time to get it repaired, since it is locked in the engaged position. I've used 2 different shops for repair. Both claim they test it and it's fine before they ship it back.

The good news is that I can get the starter out in less than 15 minutes now. The bad news is I don't want to have to do it anymore. If anyone finds out the fix, please pass it on.
Old trick that works sometimes is to;

Crank the engine and then turn on the key. I think this works on PREWAR (mecanical) but not on POSTWAR unless rewired.

I have Dad setting here and he thinks that you might need to try full the tank to add more presure if it is vapor locking. check the coil and see if you have fire when it won't start. Next you might need to check the valve clearance to see if it is to tight.

On the problem with the starter sticking in, make sure that there is enough clearance between the starter gear and flywheel. If not you may need to shim the starter up away from the flywheel, some were factory shimmed.

Sounds like its out of time. I would check the timing.

The sedan I hauled from Iowa has a couple different things from my other sedan. It has a frame around the grill cloth on the inside of the front panel. Also has the rip~cord type emergency handle sticking through the floor. Doors have only rear handles on inside. Button accelerator with a wood "stob" beside it. The engine is a cast iron block with small gen and starter. It does have two bladed fan and a Carter carb. The original color best as I can tell is an unattractive brown. Ser # CC47 22203 Engine # 1732 8 Radiator # 3~47 As always it had goofy seats welded to the floor so if someone can help me pleas do. I am keeping Tim busy sewing stuff for my little sweethearts. Cutworm

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Pre War Starting problem

My 41 won't start when it is hot. If I allow it to cool for about 1/2 hour, it starts fine but if I try sooner, It plain won't start. Pete tells me he has the same problem with his convert coupe. Anyone got any suggestions???

It could be possibly a faulty coil, I have hear that when coils fail the tend to do that. I haven't had any do that on my cars yet. Another possibility might be vapor lock, though I doubt it, you can test both with some raw gas dribbled down the carb, if it trys to fire the coil is okay, Or you could try swapping the coil with a known good one and see if problem goes away.

If it is vapor locking, about the only thing I would suggest is a elect fuel pump back by the gas tank.

"Precious" vapor locked years ago on a Denver to Brighton run, we were on our way home on highway 85 and she died ( think turning off the ign.), long story short, we ended up towing her home, when we got her off the trailer, she started right up. For some reason she doesn't like A. three people, B. high altitude, C. highway speeds of 50 MPH all combined, who'd a thunk.....

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88 E-350 pathdinder axle swap? D60 into a D61

I have a Dana 61 with Dana 60 guts: LSD and electric an locker. The Dana 61 is equally as strong as any 30 spline Dana 60. You can get any Dana 60 carriers/gear set or lockers, etc. to go into a 61; you just need the tallest deck height carrier, which is relative to the gear set ratio, plus a ring gear spacer....and before anyone asks. I have had a ring gear spacer in for years now and pushed alot of torque through it with no snapping crown bolts or any other problems. Putting Dana 60 stuff into a 61 is not straight forward, but achievable. You have to raise the pilot guide on the Dana 60 lockers, carriers, etc., which will enable you to install, and centralize, a thicker ring gear spacer. I had one custom made as there wasn't one thick enough on the market that enabled me to get my backlash down and within tolerance. Randy's Ring said it can't be done, but that, I think, was due to the lack of knowledge and experience in this type of modification. They were helpful in providing me with the deck hieght measurements thou. I think I have a picture of my Dana 60 Detroit Electrac before I installed it in my Dana 61 on the picture section. You can see I raised my pilot from 10mm to 25mm that enabled me to fit a thicker ring gear spacer . This had to be done on a lathe. I won't bore you with the details (email me if you want more info). In short, you can get any Dana 60 locker/LSD to fit in your 61. You just need access to a lathe or machine shop. Its not a curbside job for the weekend. Never heard of a Dana 59. One more thing, both Rob Mann and Gordon (Pathfinder) know what they're talking about! To my knowledge, the 61 was used in the early to mid 80's trucks and vans.

You should look for a late 80's like the one you own for a donor axle. Yes, you answered your own question as the 61 has a further pinion offset which is because of the high ratio gears, so stay away from those housings.

I think your best bet is to find a local driveline shop and have them install a new gearset. Dana 60 gears are everywhere and most shops are experienced with this axle.

You'll spend less money having a shop replace the pinion. If you buy a used axle you'll end up rebuilding it and spending more $$$, unless that's what you want to do anyway.

Aren't the rear axles on fod vans normally a Dana 61? They have a different Gear offset or something. Doesn't this prevent the use of my limited slip?

I checked the B.O.M. (bill of material) stamped on the axle tube and it indicates it's a Dana 60. I don't feel confident changing the ring & pinion, something about setting the correct backlash.

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techniques parked car

A. Parking pointing up or down?

Parking on a inclined plane is not a problem. Pointing up or down doesnt make much difference if it is for a shorter period & night long. But if you are parking for a long period (weeks together) it is safe to park pointing down. Reason - Compared to other fluids petrol has much more storage losses (Storage losses - A certain amount of petrol is lost even though it is only stored).

Technical part - There is a fuel pipe from petrol tank to engine. There is always (only when car is in ON state) a pump which pushes the fuel from tank to engine through this pipe. This pump will not be working when the vehicle is parked. So the fuel is filled inside the pipe only due to gravity. When the car is parked pointing downwards, the fuel pipe (engine side) will be always filled with fuel, though you park for a long time. So there will not be any air-gap or vacuum created inside the pipe on the engine side. If car is parked pointing up, the fuel pipe (tank side) will be always filled and as the petrol evaporate there will be air-gap or vacuum created inside the pipe on the engine side.

Summary----Chance of air-gap or vacuum is always on the upper side due to gravity.Pointing up - engine at upper level - tank at lower level - chance of air-gap or vacuum inside the petrol pipe will be on the engine side - UNSAFEPointing Down - engine at lower level - tank at higher level - chance of air-gap or vacuum inside petrol pipe will be on tank side - SAFEParking for a short period or full night is not a problem and for a long time (weeks together) follow above direction.

B. HAND BREAK

Best procedure for using hand break.As the vehicle stops - 1) Bring the vehicle to neutral gear and release clutch. 2) Pull hand-break ON 3) Press clutch pedal and change to first gear 3) Turn off the engine.

By following this procedure we can park the vehicle with absolutly zero load on clutch.load on clutch will come to effect when parked on ground-slope at any of the wheel. To avoid this undesired load on clutch we will have to follow the above procedure. Load on clutch even for a short period is harmful and may lead to gear changing problem.

About the technical points explained above even the technical person in the service centers was not aware when I discussed with them, and he accepted and he was very happy. But if you find a very senior person (age = 55+) in any of the service center with sound technical knowledge/experience they will be knowing these points.

Wish you all SAFE DRIVING and also SAFE MAINTANANCE

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Adventure Problems

I have 205/70/14s on my adventure and have never faced any problem even when the cars loaded !!

Great! Which make is it? Are they All Terrain or Highway type? Did they affect average? Don't they bulge out of the OE rims? They are YOKO ASPEC tyres. Not all terrain. Thought they would be hard for city. The bulge is not so evident. Its as much as I have on my S10 with 195/60s. Its just that owing to the profile thickness (70% of 205) the edges are rounded and you won't see/feel the footprint as flat 205. That way 195/60s on my S10 look better. But I never wanted to bring down the height of advy which is the USP of this car and hence went ahead with 205/70s

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you've camped and done this?

Sounds like might be a good solution for us. What's the hottest it's been where you've camped and done this? I'm in Atlanta and just am not sure fan(s) alone will keep us cool enough, but I'm certainly willing to give it a try...

This has worked well for us in 90's with high humidity up here in Canada.

My van is a light brown stock '92 ford chateau with the bottom flip out windows that I put screens behind (and curtains). Not much natural air flow. With the fans running, an afternoon nap is not a problem even if the only shade is from the canoe on the roof rack. Also seems to help on rainy days/nights, the moving air just feels better than calm dampness.

Certainly for the price, and simplicity, worth a try.

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Blast from the Past, Mike C (with The UFO) is Back

Mike, good to hear from you after so long. Are you going to the Lotus Festival at Snetterton this weekend? My travel plans are totally screwed up and I have to return to the US tomorrow so I can't make it.It's been best part of 10 years since I was here, but as I've just done some more restoration on my 1976 Elite and it's running and on the road, I thought I'd drop in and say hello.

I'm pleased to see several familiar names here!
So hi to all and specially to Steve and Pete who may remember me ....

The Elite was off the road for about 5 years while I did a major (and highly successful) sailing boat project. Late last year it was make or break time for the Lotus, either scrap it or do a substantial restoration job, starting with trying to sort out the water leaks and then a complete new interior. Together with overdue maintenance and fixing some long standing problems, I knew it would take many months, but it's done now and I'm pleased with the results. More details later if anyone is interested.

I've not been here for years too. Still have the Elise I bought new 11 years ago and also a Plus 2 that I've had running for 3-4 years now.

I still keep an eye on the digest, but live most of my online Lotus life on SELOC, MLOC or Lotuselan.net.

Are you going to Snetterton this w'end for this http://www.lotus-festival.com/

OK, hint taken; I've just added an album 'Mike C's Elite - The UFO' with a couple of pictures.

It's lovely to be welcomed back into the fold! Big thanks to ALL.

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Is this pic rigged

Have been away from PUG for a while (kind-a forgot that attachments do not work).

Here is the pic I am referring to - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PalioUsersIndia/photos/recent/1093563958/view

seems real, i infact did see one sienna video with 220 kmph, though it may be the non detuned foreign engine

Yup, that was me driving. It's a real dream the 1.6 L. I could get up to a 170+ but thought of controlling my hormones :-) I have touched 160 once in approx 800 mtrs on DND. GTX was in 4th gear. This was quicker with car increasing in speed. I think my GTX can touch 180 if driven on a runway :) Why would it be rigged?

I have done 190 to 195 in my GTX (speedo indication only as I did not have GPS at that time to know the real speed). The S10/GTX can attain those speeds easily given the proper roads. My GTX runs 195/55 R15 tyres so the speedo error is negligible.

I clocked ~164 kmph. I run pairs of Goodyear NCT 5's (185/60/R14) tyres. I know the vehicle could hit the 170 kmph mark but for the odd cows/dogs etc on the road :-)

Frankly, I think the car may table out after the 175 or 180'ish mark because of the fuel trim availaible in the country.

Runway is a better idea. Maybe we should try it sometime.

Awesome man, which road was that and what were the reactions of other cars?
People generally dont expect such speeds from the palios and sort of get surprised by these performances.....Ha ha.

I am Vikram, I too have clocked around 180KMPH on the Bangalore- Bellary Highway in my Palio Stile MJD SDX 2008 model many a times. The MJD is really a good car to drive. and everytime i drove in this road i clock max spped around 170KMPH. its fun to drive in this highway in the afternoon or at night time.I have a good year stock tyers on it. was wondering, whether the MJD with its 1.3 ltr engine and 75 ps pf power can actually clock those speeds! and you have mentioned that it was on bangalore-bellary highway. guess those speeds were on some incline? I have done upto 165kmph on NH4 and thought I could go even further. Believe me, those thrill you but definitely advisable.

The famous saying of Speed Thrills but also Kills is very true I meant to say definitely not advisable Palio Multijet May 09 (17 500 kms and going strong)

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Peter Cambridge - Lotus Type 14 Elite

Peter Cambridge, the designer of the Elite's interior, as well as having worked on other Lotus' interiors, passed away over the weekend.

Peter was a genuinely nice person with a wide variety of interests, particularly when it came to design. I met Peter when he and his wife Sheila came over for LOG14. We kept in touch and a few years back we were given a tour of his home area during a Lotus pilgrimage.

While it was unintended, if you look at the dash of the Evora, there is the insert from the Elite. This is a great tribute to Peter.

Peter became very active in the Lotus circle in the UK and until a couple of years ago we knew that we would get to spend some time with him at the Donington event, particularly at the Club Elite dinner.

Peter always had a twinkle in his eyes and didn't hesitate to let his dry sense of humor come out.

Peter was one of the small group of miracle workers, three of whom were recruited from Ford of England, who created the Elite and made it one of the greatest cars ever to hit the track or the street.

Peter will be missed by all of those who were fortunate to have met him.

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hand brake usage

I remember reading somewhere about hand brake usage, if we use it for longer duration it can give problem. I've no clue what kind of problem. That's why I was under the impression that we should avoid engaging hand brake for longer durations.

But many friends here are suggesting and used it without any problem. Then I've checked my Palio Stile user manual for any info and incidentally I've found the same is suggested there proving me wrong.

Sorry guys for putting my wrong opinion here and thanks for correcting me.

No problems in using the handbrakes for long duration, as longs the brake pads are dry, and the car is parked under roof. If there is moisture in the pads - say after a drive in the rains and if handbrake is used for extended periods (More than a few days), the pad tends to stick to the drum. Most of the time this is not a problem as the brakes become alright after a few kms drive. But on rare occasions, when the hand brake is released, the pad might come off the shoe and this can cause lock-ups while applying brakes.

This happened in our M800 23 years ago.. One morning on a long drive, after a few kms, the rear left wheel locked up and the car veered to the left. Luckily the roads were empty and my dad was doing slow speeds. We found that the brake pad was left loose inside the drum. BTW it was a rainy season and the car was parked for the past week with handbrakes on, and my
dad remembered driving through a water logged area just before he parked. It may not apply to the new generation cars, as the quality of the components have improved over time.

It is safer to put the hand brake on and put the car in 1st when parking. If the incline is very steep turn the steering to point the wheels towards the kerb/wall or other barrier (this way, even if the car moves it will stop at the kerb).

If the hand brake is left on for a very long time and water gets to the pads / liners then there is a chance that they get jammed but unless it is really very badly jammed due to the car not moving for several months, the jam is easily cleared by moving the car forward and backward.

It is normally recommended that both the tyres on one axle be changed together. The exception would be a damaged tyre within the first 1000 km.

It is also better that both the tyres on one axle be the same model. This is because each model of tyre is built differently using different materials. Besides the (visible) tread pattern there will be a difference in the compounds used as well as the construction of the tyre. The flex and strength of the sidewalls would be different, the contact patch would be different, the grip of the rubber would be different etc. Best to go in for two tyres for the front.

no need to change both.. looks like the ball joint /arm has gone..

What are these ball joints? The front right hand side of my Adventure has started producing a strange sound whenever the wheel goes inside a big pothole. It's something like "KHAK". The RHS front tyre has also started getting worn out from the inside. I'm told the shocker's gone but chimtas (swing arms?) are fine.

Should I change only the RHS shocker or both? Should the swing arms be changed too even if they are fine? I've been advised a complete front suspension overhaul - both shockers, shocker mountings plus swing arms. Cost approx. Rs. 13,000/- to Rs. 15,000/-. So what are these ball joints and should they be replaced too?

My car has crossed 65,000 KMs without any front suspension job. Rear shockers have been changed sometime back.

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solution to the hot van nights

Our solution to the hot van nights was to get a couple of brushless 4" 12dc fans from the surplus store. I mounted them on an 18" piece of house wire, then a big tough paper clip, and then light gauge wire to a 12v plug. The clip hooks to a shoulder belt anchor near the roof, and the heavy wire allows the fan to be positioned where required. The two fans are almost silent,draw only 75ma each, and I run them off a 35ahr auxiliary battery. (along with the tunes, DVD, and lights) I have yet to hook up the solar panel, as I have not yet to run out of juice during an outing. This may not be enough for southern extreme heat, but I was amazed how much better we slept. Our 3 way portable fridge was a great investment. (propane,12v,120v)

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Palio EL 1.2 2002 (65,000km) Starting issue ** under huge distress **

Hi All,

I have a Palio 1.2 which I drove from Bangalore to a town called Kalimpong, District Darjeeling, West Bengal. It was an awesome drive of 2,775 kms. I left my car there for my father but he has not been able to drive because the car stalls and refuses to start. The battery is new and the starter motor is fine.

He can get the car started if he tries after a day or so and then the engine stalls again. In my last visit, I took the car out but it stalled in the middle of the market place while giving way to a pedestrian. No one there is qualified to look under a FIAT's bonnet. They had only seen Padmini FIATS and laughed saying the engine layout looks old although the car design looks clean. Then they were shocked to see coolant pipes going to the throttle body (which they though was the carburetor).

There are no TATA service centres who service FIAT cars anywhere near to this town or even Siliguri which has Chevrolet and other new car company service centres. I need to have the car towed down a steep hilly region to either Calcutta or Guhwati which is too expensive as it is about 700kms away. We have already changed the timing sensor which cost me about Rs 1,100/-. The injector warning light lights up on the dashboard but goes off once started. I have visited ASCs here in Bangalore and spoken to most of the FIAT head mechanics and all say it could be anything since there are a lot of sensors involved. They told me to check for rat bites on the wiring and it would be best if I have the wire continuity checked by hooking the ECU to the analyzer (This again is not available in my location). They say it should not be the fuel pump and I have a feeling it might be the culprit. Apart from that after reading some threads here, I feel it could be the ignition coils as well. But can the ignition coils work fine for a while and then shut off completely or something? I am thinking of even getting the injectors cleaned by a good mechanic. I have even started to think it could be the throttle body sensor.

I am really in need of some help as I do not want the car to rot away as I am loosing hope on reviving it again. I just want to get the car started and bring it back to Bangalore where the ASC can take good care of it.

I would appreciate if the members here can help my father and me out of this problem.

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HOTSHOT...WOW

Hey...

We just got back from a cruse to a local restaurant with the HotShot, the newest one of out cars to be "finished". I'll tell you, what a kick that little car is to drive!! Paula followed me over with her car, as we would need to get back to the house to fetch the truck & trailer, if there was a problem with the HotShot. The little car ran great, even though Paula said I was only doing about 45 MPH. It was peppy, steered nice, but could use a tire balance.It was about 12 or 13 miles round trip. And the looks you get from other people on the road, WOW! A Newer VW Beetle passed me & Paula said it looked like it was passing a "Kiddie car", wish she would have had her camera handy. What a ball to drive!

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Blast from the Past, Mike C (with The UFO) is Back

It's been best part of 10 years since I was here, but as I've just done some more restoration on my 1976 Elite and it's running and on the road, I thought I'd drop in and say hello.

I'm pleased to see several familiar names here!
So hi to all and specially to Steve and Pete who may remember me ....

The Elite was off the road for about 5 years while I did a major (and highly successful) sailing boat project. Late last year it was make or break time for the Lotus, either scrap it or do a substantial restoration job, starting with trying to sort out the water leaks and then a complete new interior. Together with overdue maintenance and fixing some long standing problems, I knew it would take many months, but it's done now and I'm pleased with the results. More details later if anyone is interested.

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Parking during the night on an incline.

What is the correct way of parking on an incline? With handbrake on and gear in neutral or With both gear and handbrake engaged?

If there is an option of parking with car pointing up the incline or pointing down the slope, which is better? (I mean not for a short duration - may be while parking for the night.)

I have a very very slight difficulty in engaging gears now on my 1.1 stile. The difficulty comes randomly to all gears except the first and reverse gears. It feels as if the gear lever is hindered by something before falling into the slot. As I said, this does not happen every time I shift gears, but occurs randomly in 2nd, 3rd 4th and 5th gears. There is no pattern.

I have been parking during the nights on an incline for the last one month with both the gear and handbrake engaged. Could this have caused the problem?

I think, If you are parking in upward inclination, you can keep the car in first gear and if your car is in downward slope then you can keep it in reverse gear. I think hand break is not required. AFAIK we should avoid using hand break for longer durations.

Where as I do not know what could be the reason for your gear problem.

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